Legislature(2003 - 2004)
05/15/2003 07:53 AM Senate L&C
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
CSHB 269(FIN)-SAFETY CODE TASK FORCE
CHAIR BUNDE announced CSHB 269(FIN) to be up for consideration.
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY DAHLSTROM, sponsor, said that this bill is
identical to SB 180, sponsored by Senator Therriault, which was
already heard in this committee. There is only one difference -
the size of the advisory task force was expanded in CSHB
269(FIN) to include more folks. She explained:
There are five primary safety codes that deal with
construction in Alaska and they are under the
jurisdiction of two different departments. Therein
lies the majority of the problems. The fire, building
and mechanical codes are under the jurisdiction of the
fire marshall in the Department of Public Safety and
the plumbing and electrical codes are governed by the
Department of Labor. Each department is responsible
for adopting a family of codes to bring uniformity and
consistency for obvious reasons to the construction
industry. The current delegation of authority to the
respective departments has caused quite a bit of
conflict and discrepancies and I know that through the
hearings you've had that you are familiar with them.
The mission of the Safety Task Force is to suggest
options to consolidate the two groups together and
they would be tasked with coming back with
recommendations that would be due on the first day of
our second legislative session.
As part of the task force, the legislation proposes an
advisory panel. These appointments will be made by the
Governor to represent the different areas. The
president of the Senate and speaker of the House will
jointly appoint 11 additional members that will serve
on the advisory committee. The purpose of the advisory
group is to advise the task force on the effect of any
changes in code adoption to the respective industries
that they belong with. This is also to insure the
broadest representation of stakeholders so that
everyone has a good opportunity and a good chance to
voice their concerns....
CHAIR BUNDE asked if it is safe to assume the task force would
recommend a single code and whether that is possible.
REPRESENTATIVE DAHLSTROM replied yes and, although it would be a
daunting task, she thought it was possible. All agree that
safety is the main issue.
MR. GREG MOORE, NANA/Colt Engineering, said his company has 180
stakeholders and they support the idea of the task force, but
they remain concerned that no building officials, local or
state, will sit in a voting position on the task force. He
conceded that building officials will sit on an advisory
committee, but said that their input is too valuable to not have
a voting position. The argument he has heard is that using a
representative from every segment of industry would make the
task force too unwieldy and he suggested removing a voting
member that might not be as critical to the outcome. He said
there is one electric code and no one is disputing an
[electrician's] place on the task force.
REPRESENTATIVE DAHLSTROM responded that her feeling about having
a member from the electric community is that even though there
is only one code, it's got to mesh with all the other codes. She
felt their representation was important. She felt it is
important to have a building official on the advisory committee
rather than the task force, because building officials have
regulatory oversight over private sector members of the task
force. Therefore, they have an opportunity to wield undue
influence over other members of the task force.
MR. COLIN MAYNARD, APDC, agreed with the previous speaker in
that the task force needs to be more balanced. He said:
The fact of the matter is that code enforcement is
done by architects and engineers and code officials,
not by contractors or subcontractors. Those are the
people who work with it every day designing buildings
and overseeing contractors to make sure they are
meeting the requirements of the code. To have people
that are being overseen deciding what code they're
going to do, I think, is incorrect. If the electrical
one is not the one to pull out of there to add either
another engineer or the building official, then I
would combine the plumbing and mechanical seat -
because we've heard testimony that almost all of these
people have both plumbing and mechanical
administrator's licenses, so one person could handle
that job. I don't think that what this task force will
come out with will be worth anything if the design
community and code officials aren't combined in it and
right now with this make-up we're not buying into it.
REPRESENTATIVE DAHLSRTOM said she had made note of his comments
again, but she feels that the most efficient way for the task
force to be set up is with the members that are currently
listed.
CHAIR BUNDE asked if she could help the committee understand the
issue Mr. Maynard makes about the design people being the ones
that are actually doing the enforcement. He questioned, "Indeed,
should they, then, be deciding the codes or is that the fox
guarding the hen house?"
REPRESENTATIVE DAHLSTROM asked if she could have Zach Warwick
from Senator Therriault's office help with the answer.
SENATOR SEEKINS interjected and said that he had:
...agreed in conversations with the Senate President
that if this task force does become a reality, he
would be one of the co-chairs and he would not take it
kindly for anyone to imply that that task force, then,
would be unruly or that the product of the task force
would be worthless or I wouldn't spend my time there.
CHAIR BUNDE recapped that Mr. Maynard's view is that design
folks are the ones that have to police codes; he thought they
are the ones that should help decide what code it will be rather
than the people who are being policed (plumbers, contractors,
etc.). He wanted to know what Mr. Warwick and Senator Therriault
thought about that and, if the people who are enforcing the
codes get to choose which code, they would have an inherent
conflict.
MR. ZACH WARWICK, staff to Senator Therriault, responded that he
thought there would be some inherent conflict. "It's a like a
police officer writing the law."
He said that mechanical plumbing administrators are ultimately
the ones that go out and inspect their companies' work to make
sure everything is up to snuff when it comes time for the
building inspectors to come out and actually inspect the
building. He stated,
So, they do have a very direct need to look at the
code as well. Other than that, I'm not sure exactly
where that question was heading. I don't think the
design and engineering community is the one who
polices it; they are the ones who draw the code. It
would be the local building official - is the one who
is going out and policing it.
MR. DOUG MATHERS, Building Official for the City of Kodiak, said
he had sent a fax to the committee. He said the task force is a
good idea and noted:
My problem is I don't really understand how come
there's not a building official and a representative
from the fire marshal's office as a voting member on
the task force. We're the ones responsible for
enforcing these codes. They actually developed the
codes through the International Code Council and
[indisc.].
MR. WARWICK responded by saying that having a building official
as a voting member would be similar to Senator Seekins as a car
dealer telling the State of Alaska which vehicles to buy. He
maintained, "I think that's the kind of influence these people
would bring to this task force as a voting member rather than an
advisory position."
MAYOR STEVEN THOMPSON, City of Fairbanks, said the city feels
the task force would be unbalanced without a building official
and fire marshall. He indicated:
The architects and engineers design the buildings; the
building officials enforce the codes and the
contractors build the buildings. I really think you
need to have a better balance than what you are
proposing on this task force. We go through quite a
process and I'm sure all the other communities do. We
have a code review commission that we appoint. We
spent two years having hearings and public meetings on
our code review before we decided what to do with them
and now to have that possibly changed in the future
kind of scares us a bit. We want to make sure this is
balanced, that we have the right people on there that
are going to have objective views on what's going to
be taking place.
SENATOR SEEKINS asked about the makeup of the city's code review
committee.
MAYOR THOMPSON said he would have Steve Shuttlesworth answer
that.
MR. STEVE SHUTTLESWORTH said the members consisted of Ron Price,
a professional architect; Richard Tilly (chairman), Home
Builders Association; Jerry Mustard, a mechanical engineer with
Holiday Parks; Bill Howe, a co-consultant with C.B. Bettisworth
and Co.; Jim Mobius, an electrical engineer; Bill Dryder, a
registered structural engineer with PDC; and Patty Pearsall, a
registered architect.
SENATOR SEEKINS responded that there was one individual involved
in actual construction; the rest were engineers, architects and
consultants.
MR. SHUTTLESWORTH said that was correct.
MR. EUGENE RUTLAND, Executive Director, Mechanical Contractors
of Alaska, said his organization is made up of about 50
contracting firms that perform construction projects of many
types and sizes across the state of Alaska. They believe that
code adoption by regulation, which is currently used in this
state, is flawed and needs to be looked at. He stated support
for CSHB 269(FIN) with no amendments. He said the task force
would come up with solutions to issues of code adoption that
would have broad support in the construction community and that
members would allow the stakeholders to have an equal and
effective voice in the process.
MR. CHARLES DEARDON, City of Ketchikan, said he was testifying
for Mayor Bob Weinstein, and that he agrees with the mayors from
Juneau and Fairbanks that this bill is flawed regarding the
voting members of the task force. It should include a municipal
code official and fire official.
MR. JAMES BAISDEN, Kenai Fire Marshal, expressed the same
concerns as others that a building and fire official would not
be voting members of the task force. He maintained:
After the buildings are built, the fire officials
still have to deal with these facilities for the next
50 to 75 years and for us not to have an equal voice
as a voting member of this committee just doesn't make
sense.
REPRESENTATIVE DAHLSTROM repeated that she appreciates
everyone's involvement and that everyone agrees this deals with
critical issues. She still believed the current make-up of the
task force and advisory panel would be effective.
CHAIR BUNDE closed public discussion.
SENATOR SEEKINS said he could see how this could be a very
contentious issue if the panel is created. Because this is so
contentious, the legislature has been asked to become the final
arbiter and voters on how the code issues are handled. The
contractors need a transition period between codes. Because
there is tension between two sets of codes and municipalities
across the state are able to adopt different sets of codes, it
makes this issue contentious. This task force will have
recommendations for the legislature and there will still be time
for everyone to weigh in, but he hoped they would come back with
good recommendations that adequately protect the safety of
Alaskans.
TAPE 03-34, SIDE B
SENATOR SEEKINS offered to co-chair the subcommittee and hoped
that all those discussions would take place in it. He asked:
Would I as a member of the committee put more credence
in the vote of someone on the task force versus
someone I knew? I've known Steve Shuttlesworth for
years; I've known Mayor Thompson for years; I've known
several contractors for years; the man who helped put
me in business was a mechanical contractor. My dad was
an electrical contractor. I had a journeyman's book in
the carpenter's union when I was 19 years old....
He said he hoped to bring back a common sense solution to the
tension between these two groups. He moved to pass CSHB
294(FIN), version I, from committee with individual
recommendations, and said, "...with the commitment, if it
passes, as co-chairman that I'll work with everybody to try to
come up with a solid recommendation to bring back so we can get
it solved next year."
CHAIR BUNDE noted there were no objections and it was so
ordered.
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